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NEO Team's Projects for the GBA/NDS/NDS lite => NEO Flash and Magic Key 1/2/3 help, FAQ/guides and discussion => Topic started by: PriusTK on February 15, 2006, 12:22:52 AM

Title: 4M Save Flash
Post by: PriusTK on February 15, 2006, 12:22:52 AM
Hi Dr.Neo

Thank you for providing your good product MK3.
In Japanese recent ROM, as "0293- Eigo ga Nigate na Otona no DS Training: Eigo Zuke" , use 4M flash ( ST Micro. M45PE40) for it's save memory.
Could MK3 support this ROM?
Or Should I wait for your new product?
The SC-SD can support this ROM by using original save area. But it's non-sense.

I hope MK3 can support it by next release menu.
Title: Re: 4M Save Flash
Post by: bruceg on February 15, 2006, 07:11:14 AM
That's a very good question since a lot of people are wondering whether mk2/mk3 will support the larger roms/saves that are coming out now.  I asked cory about this in another thread, so hopefully he'll see this, and post any info he knows here for everyone's benefit.

BruceG
Title: Re: 4M Save Flash
Post by: cory1492 on February 18, 2006, 11:30:36 AM
There are plenty of ways to work around the hardware, saving to an origional DS cart with the same save size is only one option. SuperCard can probably support it already by simply increasing the filesize to 512k.

An unforseen (not really) expansion of the gamesave size, and non-standard cart types/sizes can be expected from a minority of games. Just look at GBA stuff, some of those use some odd bankswitching and non-nintendo produced chips to expand the game size and save size; its just a matter of time before patches, workarounds etc can come forward and work well.

I have yet to see any product that has truely 100% compatibility, the official hardware is evolving as long as they are making new games, and in all honesty I cant say that anyone would go really far out of their way to get 1 Japanese game working (unless some kind Japanese soul steps up with a way to make it work, of course).
Title: Re: 4M Save Flash
Post by: Kushan on February 18, 2006, 11:35:28 AM
I dare say people will create patches to allow you to use the Flash cart to save a game, then backup the save to SD later on.
That's how I would do it, anyway.
Title: Re: 4M Save Flash
Post by: boblen on February 18, 2006, 11:38:31 AM
yes you coould use corys patcher
Title: Re: 4M Save Flash
Post by: Kushan on February 18, 2006, 11:41:54 AM
No, that won't do anything.

This is the SAVE size we are talking about, not the Rom size.

The MK3 has a 2M SRAM which has worked fine for ALL games up 'till now. But the problem is, games are starting to get released that have a 4M Save, which is too big for the MK3's built in saver to handle.
Title: Re: 4M Save Flash
Post by: cory1492 on February 18, 2006, 12:02:55 PM
I dare say people will create patches to allow you to use the Flash cart to save a game, then backup the save to SD later on.
That's how I would do it, anyway.
Or simply do what supercard did, and write directly to an already existing file on SD... as I said, so far it is one game that uses that save type, most are happy to sit tight with what bigN specified though.

current save types/sizes
4kbit - EEPROM
64kbit - EEPROM
128kbit - EEPROM (guess is about 4-5 uses this one)
2mbit - flash
4mbit - flash (so far only one uses this)
Title: Re: 4M Save Flash
Post by: Kushan on February 18, 2006, 12:05:32 PM
Yeah I suppose so, that would no doubt work for 99% of games, but you just know that there will be that one REALLY AMAZING game that everyone wants to play...that just doesn't work >_<
Title: Re: 4M Save Flash
Post by: boblen on February 18, 2006, 12:27:14 PM
yes that game we all want to play ::sm-02::
Title: Re: 4M Save Flash
Post by: PriusTK on February 19, 2006, 03:02:01 AM
Thank you for replies.  :)

In my understanding, you will support such ROM by software.
I do not hope that you will support such Roms by directly save to SD, because it may cause any access time issue.
Couldn't you use a part of Menu ROM or ZIP SRAM for save area?
Or are there any way to support it by MK3 hardware?

Currently it may be only one games that use 4M flash.
But if the Nintendo realizes that it causes some difficulties to support by a kind of your product, they will recommend it to the game provider.
On the other hands, the device cost-down speed is very fast. The silicon vendor will stop the small size flash, because the cost difference will minimize between 2M and 4M. So I think that such game will increase.

I believe that MK3 is the best solution for this kind of product.
Title: Re: 4M Save Flash
Post by: boblen on February 19, 2006, 04:30:12 AM
yep thats right the mk3 is better than the mk2
Title: Re: 4M Save Flash
Post by: Kushan on February 19, 2006, 10:59:36 AM
Nintendo wont care if the 4M save is a problem for homebrew people (i.e. us).
As it has been stated, there's all sorts of ways of bypassing the 4M save limit, they're just not needed at the moment.
Saving to SD card wont actually cause that big a delay, saving isn't done constantly (unlike reading the Rom) so it would only be a slight periodic thing and there's still nothing stopping the Rom from being on the flash cart or MK3 at the same time.
Also, hopefully by the time a lot of 4M games do come out, the read/write speeds of the SD card will have been increased.
Title: Re: 4M Save Flash
Post by: cory1492 on February 19, 2006, 01:14:30 PM
Quote
I do not hope that you will support such Roms by directly save to SD, because it may cause any access time issue.
Couldn't you use a part of Menu ROM or ZIP SRAM for save area?
Or are there any way to support it by MK3 hardware?
Flashing the menu flash space is actually alot slower than flashing/writing the SD/MMC disk.
Title: Re: 4M Save Flash
Post by: Dr.neo on March 07, 2006, 02:46:49 PM
PriusTK can u buy this cart and send to me? i'll pay all  :)
Title: Re: 4M Save Flash
Post by: boblen on March 07, 2006, 03:49:34 PM
this came from [link to romsite edited out].coms website:

0293 - Eigo ga Nigate na Otona no DS Training - Eigo Zuke
Region: Japan
Language: Japanese
Publisher: Nintendo
Internal Name: EIGODUKE
Serial: NTR-ANGJ-JPN
Save Type: FLASH (2Mbit)
Size: 1024 Mbit

[link to romsite edited out]
Title: Re: 4M Save Flash
Post by: cory1492 on March 07, 2006, 04:16:09 PM
boblen: he is looking for the actual cart from someone who can buy it locally most likely...

so far as I can tell it will work on a supercard with a 2mbit cart, not sure though if it is doing what it is supposed to properly. (2mbit save games often use 1/2 of the memory for mirror data in case of poor timing when powering off the DS)
Title: Re: 4M Save Flash
Post by: boblen on March 07, 2006, 04:23:37 PM
Yes i can get hold of the cart  :)
Title: Re: 4M Save Flash
Post by: PriusTK on March 08, 2006, 01:07:08 AM
Hi Dr.Neo,

Sure , I can send to you it, if you still need it.
Where should I send it to you?
Please send message to this personal account.

Please refer the below link.
http://blog.goo.ne.jp/panyawo/e/0d9747df8b05cd9f3f439697b26ed735

Sorry this is japanese, but you can see jpg image.
It use 4M Flash( ST Micro. M45PE40)


And I report the other case.
"0342 - Doraemon - Nobita no Kyouryuu 2006 DS (J)(WRG)"
It may use 4M flash(same cart).
Because it use 1Gb ROM, and it fails on the save initialization.
I think you can try 0342 by downloading from china site.


Title: Re: 4M Save Flash
Post by: rogerpoco on March 08, 2006, 01:34:15 AM
im checking out 0293 - Eigo ga Nigate na Otona no DS Training - Eigo Zuke right now.it boots directly from sd(but not well)and hangs after a short time.flashing to NEO now.

someone might have to guide me around to save(this looks really Japanese 8))

Ill check 0342 - Doraemon - Nobita no Kyouryuu 2006 DS (J)next.

To anyone who cares-Get the 1024 neo-flash cart(130.00-divineoCN)and the 2006 mk3(89.00-divineoUS).Wait just a little while on the software(this is still sooooo new)and you will be very pleased.
Admittedly,i am an optimist,but i do not work for anyone here or anything.its just the future i see.


EDIT-ill also check rub rabbits(i can understand it.Not that that always matters-the block kuzushi is in my current top 10 ;)i just noticed that this thread became about larger roms saving in general.
Title: Re: 4M Save Flash
Post by: rogerpoco on March 08, 2006, 02:29:54 AM
Okay,from here,as an end-user,0293 - Eigo ga Nigate na Otona no DS Training SEEMS to boot,run,and save just fine.
As i said,i cannot really understand it,but i can make some character markings with the stylus,keep noodling for a while,turn off ds.Turn on ds,try to boot a game from mk3.Asks-save:0293 - Eigo ga Nigate na Otona no DS,yes,load other game save,yes,boot other game,yes.Turn off ds.turn on ds,boot 0293 - Eigo ga Nigate na Otona no DS Training,save other game save,yes,load  0293 - Eigo ga Nigate na Otona no DS .sav,yes.game boots,and character markings are still there.
Dont know if this helps.working on 0342 - Doraemon - Nobita no Kyouryuu 2006 DS (J) now.


EDIT-i guess that tells me anything rub rabbits would,so im probably not going to check it now.my son was playing it the other day(ahoy!)but im not sure if he tried to save.
Title: Re: 4M Save Flash
Post by: rogerpoco on March 08, 2006, 02:49:50 AM
Last time(on this),promise :-[


0342 - Doraemon - Nobita no Kyouryuu 2006 DS (J) flashes and boots fine,but immediately goes to an error screen(?)all i can make out is "DS" "off"-seems consistent with the few english roms with save issues(princess peach,Dragonball Z,etc..-but not too many etc.....'s :))

MK3 1024 maybe..........?(please!!!!!)
Title: Re: 4M Save Flash
Post by: bruceg on March 08, 2006, 02:58:09 AM
While 293 boots, I couldn't figure out how to progress any further (pressing all the different buttons), so I assumed it was not working (can't figure out some of these Japanese games very easily).  But 342 definitely seems to be broken.

BruceG
Title: Re: 4M Save Flash
Post by: rogerpoco on March 08, 2006, 03:27:46 AM
It seems pretty neat really.mostly i hit the red button in the upper right corner of the lower screen.
You get to a point and it says a phrase in english,and you have to write it(pretty easy,if english is your native language :))

"isnt she beautiful"

then theres this guy sitting at a desk,and a girl keeps saying"hello"until you hit the red button a few times...lol.....

i went to daily training,then entered characters with the stylus.that is when it seemed to save.shows up on"daily training"



also bruce,i had this idea that maybe you have to make sure a save is in place for some of the games(princess peach,doraemon,etc..)with save issues BEFORE you boot the game the first time,so it would have something to write to.
its probably stupid,and im too lazy to try right now.
Title: Re: 4M Save Flash
Post by: Dr.neo on March 08, 2006, 09:37:26 PM
thanks PriusTK, please check your PM.

and do you have the PCB link for 0342 - Doraemon - Nobita no Kyouryuu 2006 ? so we can see what save chip it use:)
Title: Re: 4M Save Flash
Post by: PriusTK on March 08, 2006, 11:40:54 PM

0342 - Doraemon - Nobita no Kyouryuu 2006 DS (J) flashes and boots fine,but immediately goes to an error screen(?)all i can make out is "DS" "off"-seems consistent with the few english roms with save issues(princess peach,Dragonball Z,etc..-but not too many etc.....'s :))



It says that
"Failure during card initialization.
Please turn off the DS.
And then please reinsert this card."

How did you become 0293 work ?
Did you use 1G flash cart?
I tried only boot from SD.
My try is same as your first trial.

Quote
thanks PriusTK, please check your PM.

and do you have the PCB link for 0342 - Doraemon - Nobita no Kyouryuu 2006 ? so we can see what save chip it use:)


Sorry I don't have the PCB link.
Title: Re: 4M Save Flash
Post by: bruceg on March 09, 2006, 10:51:10 AM
Yeah,

Roger has the 1 gig Neoflash, so that's how he is testing....

BruceG
Title: Re: 4M Save Flash
Post by: rogerpoco on March 09, 2006, 08:58:42 PM
It might seem like a big investment(the 1024 neo-cart),but,man,it makes life easier.
I think to get one will really pay off in the next few weeks.

PriusTK-if you decide to get one,they are a lot cheaper at divineoCN than anywhere else i have found.(how many times have i said that now? ;D.)
Just make sure to get the best deal.i have seen a hundred dollar difference at different places.check around.
Title: Re: 4M Save Flash
Post by: PriusTK on March 10, 2006, 12:42:38 AM
Thanks Roger,

Did you try to make four persons save data?

Some SC-Card user reported that two users save file was OK, but last two user save data of four user save data was ignored.

Sorry, it is difficult for me to describe this.

But simply, you may be not able to make 4 save data. You may be able to make only two save data on it.
I don't have SC, so I could not confirm this by SC.


Could you try to make different 4 users save data ?
And please confirm these datas.
Title: Re: 4M Save Flash
Post by: rogerpoco on March 10, 2006, 12:50:04 AM
I do understand,you come across very clear and concise(something i myself sometimes have trouble with..) ;)


I can confirm two saves,but I did not try four.I will try,but it may be tomorrow before i can post the results.
Title: Re: 4M Save Flash
Post by: rogerpoco on March 10, 2006, 11:12:09 PM
PriusTK,
Hey,as I said,I am kind of stumbling around to figure out how to save,as I do not know any Japanese(I am hoping one of my daughters may,through GBA games.we'll see)

BUT-I am certain I am saving,4 files(they show up on the same screen,right?),as my own"drawings"reappear after booting.
I loaded another game,played it,then re booted 0293 - Eigo ga Nigate na Otona no DS Training,and the saves were still there.
It really appears to be very compatible,no slowdown(speech)etc..


Good luck.Remember-MK32006+1024(1g)Neo-Cart=oh i am so happy. :)
Title: Re: 4M Save Flash
Post by: PriusTK on March 14, 2006, 12:50:06 AM
Hi Roger,

Thank you for your investigation.
And sorry for late response.

 ;D

Title: Re: 4M Save Flash
Post by: rogerpoco on March 14, 2006, 01:08:23 AM
It's no problem.
Really.I"play" around with this stuff so much,it's nice to have a direct mission once in a while. :)