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The 10th. NEO Project for N64 => The 10th. NEO Project for N64 Dev kit. => N64 development section => Topic started by: Conle on January 01, 2010, 11:32:06 PM

Title: Testers(and not only!) dump thread
Post by: Conle on January 01, 2010, 11:32:06 PM
Okay here we can talk about incompatibility issues reported in the "Testers report thread".


I will make the start.
So far it seems to be an issue with 256Mbit roms.The programmer crashes on VERIFY proccess.

Ihave tested the following 256Mbit roms :
 Jet force gemini & Road rush64 .
Title: Re: Testers(and not only!) dump thread
Post by: Conle on January 01, 2010, 11:47:59 PM
Hmm it seems that its not only 256 roms. Resident evil 2 (512Mbit) also crashes on verify. Its clearly issues with the programmer.

By the way , some suggestions for ShivenYu:

(Important)
[1]Make the verify optional
[2]Make the text status optional , because MFC text rendering is very slow when you update it on every byte written.. or update the label every 1.000 - 2.000ms or every 8/16Kbytes written.

This will give a nice boost to the burning speed.


(Not so important)
[3]Before installing the app , remove all NEO .inf files from INF directory because a normal user will not be able to tell which version is the correct.
At the moment there are 3 files in the list if you have installed and older version of the programmer.

[4]When you set N64 mode ,the first time it will ask you to format the cart.
Always tick by default  "N64" in "Format menu" because the current is MD MYTH and the first time user will get confused because of the error message for the incorrect bios file.

Title: Re: Testers(and not only!) dump thread
Post by: Infrid on January 02, 2010, 03:28:37 AM
we should use the GoodN64 name style for posting test results...

Conle, did you used PAL or NTSC roms?

Quote
Jet force gemini , NONE ,256Mbit,6105(Exact cause : the programmer crashes on VERIFY)

we found 610x cic only in NTSC roms, PAL games use 710x cic type.

as far as I know you can use only PAL roms with PAL console!
Title: Re: Testers(and not only!) dump thread
Post by: ChillyWilly on January 02, 2010, 03:36:38 AM
Be sure to do a full format instead of a fast format first. The full format finds and marks bad blocks in the flash. Verify would fail for me on the MD stuff until I did a full format. It's even more important on N64 roms given how large they are.
Title: Re: Testers(and not only!) dump thread
Post by: Conle on January 02, 2010, 03:42:38 AM

Quote
Mario E Multi3(and some others) is PAL and has 610x ICIC too so it might not be the case.




Well at the moment i cannot test more games.For some reason the USB port of the cart went at the bottom of the cart while i've been testing it.
 ~sm-34.gif~ ~sm-34.gif~

I have pmed Dr.Neo to ask him if i should try to put some solder back & see if it works.
The connector was a bit soft (you could feel that it was going a bit down) from the beginning but this was unexpected. :'( :'( >:(


Be sure to do a full format instead of a fast format first. The full format finds and marks bad blocks in the flash. Verify would fail for me on the MD stuff until I did a full format. It's even more important on N64 roms given how large they are.

Could be.I didn't do full format.
Hope someone can test the non working games.


Edit:Oops instead deleting my double post i quoted the first & then deleted it.
Title: Re: Testers(and not only!) dump thread
Post by: Conle on January 02, 2010, 11:28:10 PM
An update on my case.

Sometimes , we , humans(?) , don't think very clear :-X.

I also have md myth with slimloader4 AND another slimloader3 for a GBA flashcart.
 ::sm-05::

I don't know what i was thinking  ::sm-07.gif::.

By the way , here's how it looks ->
http://www.sendspace.com/file/0o8deh
Title: Re: Testers(and not only!) dump thread
Post by: sven on January 03, 2010, 12:45:29 AM
yeah, te usb port defenitly shouldn't be there. When I get mine I'll probably put some extra tape over it  ~sm-40.gif~ Any one else has report of the usb port not being that solid.

Btwm I'm amazed at how small the myth card actually is, that's truly wonderfull. Hope to recieve my cart monday
Title: Re: Testers(and not only!) dump thread
Post by: Conle on January 03, 2010, 12:46:19 AM
I have just tried waverace 64 , this time the EU Multi2 and it works great.
Seems like that the region of the game is very important until we patch it via software.
 8)

Title: Re: Testers(and not only!) dump thread
Post by: Conle on January 03, 2010, 12:53:06 AM
yeah, te usb port defenitly shouldn't be there. When I get mine I'll probably put some extra tape over it  ~sm-40.gif~ Any one else has report of the usb port not being that solid.

Btwm I'm amazed at how small the myth card actually is, that's truly wonderfull. Hope to recieve my cart monday

Yes the hardware is very impressive.
Now regarding the USB port , its the same as MD MYTH.

But MD MYTH never failed for me(and we're talking for over 400burns!!!!) and after looking at my n64 fc usb port it seems that it had just a little solder iron(Wasn't really lucky).I think it was just a small hardware fail.

The good thing is that Neoteam is using Slimloader3/4 for all their products so i could just buy a SL4 and do the job!
But really , when something unexpected happens , you really can't think so clear.
 ~sm-34.gif~
Title: Re: Testers(and not only!) dump thread
Post by: ChillyWilly on January 03, 2010, 01:05:53 AM
The good thing is that Neoteam is using Slimloader3/4 for all their products so i could just buy a SL4 and do the job!

The Neo2-SD comes with a SL4. That's handy for when you have multiple flash cards. I can burn one while the Neo Myth is in use elsewhere.
 :D
Title: Re: Testers(and not only!) dump thread
Post by: Conle on January 03, 2010, 01:15:26 AM
The Neo2-SD comes with a SL4. That's handy for when you have multiple flash cards. I can burn one while the Neo Myth is in use elsewhere.
 :D

Let me guess : You have so many that you did put some on your christmas tree  ::sm-05::  O0O  ::sm-29.gif::
Title: Re: Testers(and not only!) dump thread
Post by: Conle on January 03, 2010, 01:40:00 AM
Conker's bad fur day [E]! works great on pal n64. The U release i tried yesterday gives black screen. That's really cool!

Now im going to test Resident evil 2 [E] M2 , then Jet force gemini[E] & Road Rush[E].

Edit : Good news , RE2 E M2 works! ::sm-29.gif:: And looks even better than psx version with the expansion ram :-*

JFG [E] works too!! Woohoo  ~sm-42.gif~
Title: Re: Testers(and not only!) dump thread
Post by: ChillyWilly on January 03, 2010, 02:15:45 AM
Let me guess : You have so many that you did put some on your christmas tree  ::sm-05::  O0O  ::sm-29.gif::

I bought 10 and resold 9 of them... a few just in time for xmas.
 ::sm-24.gif::

So I know there's AT LEAST 9 other people out there with the MD Myth and a Neo2-SD. I figure that number will go up with the N64 Myth now out, especially once the menu is working.
 8)
Title: Re: Testers(and not only!) dump thread
Post by: Conle on January 03, 2010, 02:28:28 AM
I bought 10 and resold 9 of them... a few just in time for xmas.
 ::sm-24.gif::

So I know there's AT LEAST 9 other people out there with the MD Myth and a Neo2-SD. I figure that number will go up with the N64 Myth now out, especially once the menu is working.
 8)

That's good because it proves that there are people out there that are really interested to get Md myth(its one of my favorite retro-thingies!!  :-*)!.

N64 sure interests more people compared to the MD , so yeah , great things are coming!!

By the way , all [  U  ] releases that i reported yesterday work great with their [E] alternatives!!
The region is very important factor until some software patching is applied.

Great work Neoteam  :'( ;D
Title: Re: Testers(and not only!) dump thread
Post by: Link83 on January 03, 2010, 03:51:50 AM
I am really impressed with the N64 Myth Cart so far, and have not had any games fail to verify or boot, I am really very pleased with it ;D

However, I have noticed a few small problems - and since i'm a tester I feel its important that I mention them:-

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

EEPROM 16Kb saves are not working for me. I tested Perfect Dark, Banjo Tooie, Donkey Kong 64 and Conkers Bad Fur Day and none would save. Donkey Kong 64 appeared to save for one moment but the save dissappeared as soon as the console was turned off. Perfect Dark says the 'save file is corrupted' and wont save at all. The battery in the Neo2 cart is fine, as all other saves types (EEPROM 4Kb, SRAM 256Kb, Flash 1Mb) are all working great. (EDIT - 16Kbit EEPROM saves fixed by Dr.neo with 1.1 core update)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Backing up saves using the 'Backup Save' option in the Neo2 Ultra Menu does not seem to work correctly. All the save files seem to dump as the correct size/file type, but none of the save files actually work on emulators, even when using the exact same rom and giving the save file the exact same name as expected by the emulator.

When compared with a hex editor all the SRAM and Flash saves files I have backed up appear to have almost the exact same data, even though the saves are from entirely different games. When compared with a hex editor to their corresponding game emulator save files they seem to be completely different, leading me to believe that incorrect data is being dumped from the SRAM by the Neo2 Ultra Menu.

I'm not sure if the Neo2 Ultra Menu is 'patching' the roms for each different save type, or if the Neo Myth cartridge is 'emulating' each save type so it appears correct to the game?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Neo2 SRAM doesn't appear to be completely wiped clean after a new rom is burnt to the flash. I noticed that after playing Zelda OoT, then Jet Force Gemini, and then back to Zelda OoT I could still find one of my three save slots from Zelda completely intact. I think it would be wise to clear the SRAM completely for each new game being played to prevent problems with corrupted data where one games save partially overwrites another etc.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I also have a few small suggestions/tweak for improving the Neo2 Ultra Menu's 'N64' tab:-

- Remove the drop down save options for 'SRAM 512Kb' and 'SRAM 1Mb' since no N64 games use those save sizes
- Change the 'Clr ROM' button to say 'Clear ROM' (less ambiguous)
- Change the name of the 'DownLoad Save' button to say 'Restore Save'

On the 'Format' tab the 'Menu Type Select' Currently says:-
GBA/NDS
MD Myth
SNES
N64
SFC/NES

But I think it would be better if it said:-
GBA/NDS
MD Myth
FC/NES Myth
SFC/SNES Myth
N64 Myth

Thats all for now  :)
Title: Re: Testers(and not only!) dump thread
Post by: Conle on January 03, 2010, 04:10:06 AM

Links83 that's why we need a menu.The programmer cannot do these things.
By the way , great job with testing!! i hope all testers to be as active as you are!
 ::sm-08.gif:: ;D
Title: Re: Testers(and not only!) dump thread
Post by: Conle on January 03, 2010, 05:24:43 AM
Stefan_iro , please post here general questions & not in the testers thread.
Sorry for deleting your post , but the forum cannot move posts to existing threads.

And to answer your question : No the N64 Myth has no issues with 16K SRAM games.Just needs the menu.

Edit : I've send you a PM in case you missed this thread. ~sm-37.gif~
Title: Re: Testers(and not only!) dump thread
Post by: Link83 on January 03, 2010, 06:47:22 AM
Links83 that's why we need a menu.The programmer cannot do these things.
By the way , great job with testing!! i hope all testers to be as active as you are!
 ::sm-08.gif:: ;D
Thanks Conle  :) I will test it as best as I can!  ::sm-12.gif:: ::sm-22.gif::

Does the N64 Myth Cartridge already have an 'invisible' boot menu already installed by Dr.neo that makes all the other save types work? I only ask as I only seem to have problems with the 16Kbit EEPROM saves, all other save types already work fantastic  ;D So if there is no boot menu yet, how do all the other save types work? I hope you dont mind me asking.

I had thought that all saves types were backed up to the 2Mbit SRAM on the Neo2 cartridge and guessed that this might be done by either:-
- Patching the game to support SRAM instead of EEPROM/Flash, or
- Emulating the save type using the FPGA chip in the N64 Myth cartridge so that the game still thinks its saving to EEPROM/Flash.
(I hope that makes sense!)

Can you perhaps check if you can save a 16Kbit EEPROM? Perfect Dark is a good test subject because it comes up with a save error screen if there is a problem, and you dont have to watch a game opening sequence before saving.

16Kbit EEPROM support must be at least partially already working though because Banjo Tooie will not recognise any controllers if it does not find a 16Kbit EEPROM when booting:-
http://n64.icequake.net/mirror/www.elitendo.com/n64/usa_boot_save_faq.html#btooie1
However, Banjo Tooie does recognise a controller once you select the 16Kbit EEPROM save type setting in the Neo2 Ultra Menu before burning, which means the game must think there is a 16Kbit EEPROM present even though it still wont save.

Also, maybe I am mistaken but I thought the Neo2 Ultra Menu program would be responsible for backing up and restoring save files, not the cartridge boot menu? (Unless the boot menu also runs on the cartridge when connected to the PC and interfaces with Neo2 Ultra Menu?)

Anyway, im sure neo team and coders will sort out this small problem soon!  ;)
Title: Re: Testers(and not only!) dump thread
Post by: Conle on January 03, 2010, 07:56:30 AM
Quote
Does the N64 Myth Cartridge already have an 'invisible' boot menu already installed by Dr.neo that makes all the other save types work? I only ask as I only seem to have problems with the 16Kbit

No the current bios file is just a dummy 1Mb file with standard genesis/32X header.

Quote

Can you perhaps check if you can save a 16Kbit EEPROM? Perfect Dark is a good test subject because it comes up with a save error screen if there is a problem, and you dont have to watch a game opening sequence before saving.

It doesn't show any error , i just can't create a new profile and the list with the
"game notes" is disabled.

Do a standard format to the cart and try again.But yeah , the game
cannot be played of course , even if the save ram is cleaned up.

Quote
I had thought that all saves types were backed up to the 2Mbit SRAM on the Neo2 cartridge and guessed that this might be done by either:-
- Patching the game to support SRAM instead of EEPROM/Flash, or
- Emulating the save type using the FPGA chip in the N64 Myth cartridge so that the game still thinks its saving to EEPROM/Flash.
(I hope that makes sense!)

I'm not 100% sure how the myth programmer is writting the data to the cart,but
probably it must be similar with MD MYTH ->

[block N]
-The offset of the image
-The length of the image
-Save type and alloc
-NEO Run command
-more flags

[Next block]

I'll make a guess.As you can see the programmer allows you to set the "run mode"(Boot to menu/Run game).
At the moment the core is programmed to read the status of the on/off switch.

If the run mode is RUN GAME and switch is 0 , then load the block at #base offset,
otherwise it will load the block at  #base offset + length of #blobk.0.

If the run mode is "Boot menu" , it will launch the menu instead....But the menu which handles the sram and eeprom bank/s is missing.
Title: Re: Testers(and not only!) dump thread
Post by: Infrid on January 04, 2010, 11:26:19 PM
I'm testing the flash cart right now. but why is so slow to burn? it takes about 10 minutes for 512mbit!
Title: Re: Testers(and not only!) dump thread
Post by: Conle on January 04, 2010, 11:52:20 PM
I'm testing the flash cart right now. but why is so slow to burn? it takes about 10 minutes for 512mbit!

One of the reasons is (believe it or not!) the MFC text rendering. It can take over 60-100ms to update the surface(depends the machine of course) and when the app burns the rom byte by byte or using a very small chunk the total burn time increases alot!.

I hope that the text will be removed or i guess we will have to wait for the sd support. ::sm-26.gif::
Title: Re: Testers(and not only!) dump thread
Post by: ChillyWilly on January 05, 2010, 01:53:29 AM
One of the reasons is (believe it or not!) the MFC text rendering. It can take over 60-100ms to update the surface(depends the machine of course) and when the app burns the rom byte by byte or using a very small chunk the total burn time increases alot!.

I ran into that on the MD menu with just syncing the prints to the vertical blank.  ::sm-29.gif::

Quote
I hope that the text will be removed or i guess we will have to wait for the sd support. ::sm-26.gif::

I'll have to put more work into getting the speed as high as possible on the N64 given that games are so much bigger. 50 KB/sec is okay for the MD, but isn't so good for a 32MB N64 game.
 ???  ::sm-05::
Title: Re: Testers(and not only!) dump thread
Post by: Conle on January 05, 2010, 02:07:47 AM
The good thing is that N64's main processor runs at 94MHZ. That's at least 12times faster as md , so we could get 500-600KB/sec easily.

Also there is a co-processor clocked at 64MHZ.It might be possible to use both if they can run i separate thread.

An example , of how you can copy 64MB rom:

CPU0 copies at flash offset + 0 - 1MB
CPU1 copies at flash offset + 1 - 2MB.
CPU0 waits for CPU1 to finish the task.

That gives +30MHZ.

But im not sure how easy the cpus can co-operate and if you're allowed to write to the flash at specific addresses and not just in locked mode block-by-block.

If its completely address-locked then the 2nd cpu can be used for patches.

By the way , so far in the docs i haven't found much information on how to run 2 threads on separate cpus.
Title: Re: Testers(and not only!) dump thread
Post by: ChillyWilly on January 05, 2010, 02:13:03 AM
The N64 can DMA ROM/SRAM space as well, so we should be able to get DMA speeds out of this. I was thinking of how I could DMA the nibbles from the SD card, then make a pass with the CPU to merge the nibbles. I'm hoping to get some GOOD speed from the SD cards with the N64.
Title: Re: Testers(and not only!) dump thread
Post by: neo-diy on January 05, 2010, 11:50:15 PM
eep16k wrong questions to the v2 version of the fix by, v1 version of the
epp16k switch d9 just point cic 06 so only Yoshi Story to action

This is a reference table cic coot
cic-6101 = cic7102
cic-6102 = cic7101
cic-6103 = cic7103
cic-6105 = cic7105
cic-6106 = cic7106
Title: Re: Testers(and not only!) dump thread
Post by: radorn on January 06, 2010, 12:19:50 PM
I'd like to suggest something for the SD support.

I guess the public would want SD support to be like in DS and GBA carts. That is, with FAT support. But I'm strongly against this because this would impose the addition of a FAT filesystem reader running on the N64, which in my opinion is something to avoid since it could interfere with the game, slow speeds, and is also much more difficult to implement. Also, SD cards are sufficiently slow and have enough latency to be a proble just by themselves.

Instead of this, I would like that you'd go for an easier, more correct and compatible solution (from the side of the N64, not the PC, of course), which would be to use a "flat file system" in which ROMs, instead of being stored in FAT clusters, would just be a single big chunk of data lying on the SD card, just referenced by some simple table, and the menu software would only have to set the hardware so it offets reads on the N64 cart slot to the correct place on the SD card.

Storing ROMs on the card would be done with some extra program and not windows explorer, of course, but that's a minor problem for the advantage of not having a FAT filesystem (plus supporting code) running on the console.

That's my opinion anyway.
Title: Re: Testers(and not only!) dump thread
Post by: Sektor on January 06, 2010, 12:24:14 PM
I don't think SD would be fast enough to run from directly.  If it's not fast enough then you'd have to copy from SD to flash (slow) or SD to RAM (only have 16Mbyte of RAM on the Neo SD).
Title: Re: Testers(and not only!) dump thread
Post by: radorn on January 16, 2010, 09:00:35 AM
I have a problem with Body Harvest (U) [!] on NTSC console (PAL console shows region protection message).

I managed to play it and save at first.
I could even dump the save to PC and use it on an emulator, but it no longer works. I even tried full reformat on te neo2.
The save just doesn't show.
Also, most of the times I try to load the game it gives me a black screen and I have to reset/powercycle the console several times to get it to load properly.
It no longer accepts my save or even making a new one by playing normally.
The save is lost upon reset.
second ROM on the cart that I used, Blast Corps (U) (V1.0) [!] saves fine and loads everytime.

I even tried burning the same roms in reverse order and restoring the saves, and blast corps loaded fine while body harvest kept failing.

EDIT: European Body Harvest rom doesn't work on PAL console even.

There's definitelly something not working for body harvest.
Title: Re: Testers(and not only!) dump thread
Post by: Conle on January 16, 2010, 09:45:33 PM
Body harvest PAL version works fine for me as long as i don't change the save type setting.

For some reason when i set the save type of some games manually they have issues.

Still , im not sure if its because im using MD MYTH cart/or external SL IV to burn the roms since the USB connector of my N64 Myth cart is broken.
 ::sm-02::

Also save backup/restore is not working at all.Im just getting a genesis header word swapped.
 ::sm-01::
Title: Re: Testers(and not only!) dump thread
Post by: radorn on January 17, 2010, 04:49:10 AM
but how do you save then?
body harvest uses 4keeprom.

do you have to use a real 4k eeprom and overwrite it's save?
Title: Re: Testers(and not only!) dump thread
Post by: neo-diy on January 17, 2010, 07:03:27 AM
save to c: \ neo2 ultra menu \ n64 \
Only the format of the corresponding Project64
You need to save the file name to Project64 able to accept the name of

STARFOX64.eep <<ep4k & 16k
THE MASK OF MUJURA.fla <<fram 128k
THE LEGEND OF ZELDA.sra <<sram 32k
Title: Re: Testers(and not only!) dump thread
Post by: radorn on January 17, 2010, 11:13:58 AM
save to c: \ neo2 ultra menu \ n64 \
Only the format of the corresponding Project64
You need to save the file name to Project64 able to accept the name of

STARFOX64.eep <<ep4k & 16k
THE MASK OF MUJURA.fla <<fram 128k
THE LEGEND OF ZELDA.sra <<sram 32k

Thanks but that's not what I meant and I already knew about it.

Conle said that you shouldn't change save type in body harvest, but it uses eep4k, so if you leave it in "card", how the hell do you have the game save?
You have to use a 4keeprom cart?

And by the way. Can someone explain what is that "ModeA" column in the ultra menu? mode0, mode1... what are these?

EDIT:
well. I could save properly in body harvest using a spare copy of SM64 I have (only on PAL, though, as I don't have any NTSC cart with eeprom 4k).
It's definitelly not a good solution, specially if there's no way to back up that save.

by the way, I know about this "backup master" thing that is being worked on, but, is that an additional piece of hardware or some software/frmware solution that will work with the myth cart?
Title: Re: Testers(and not only!) dump thread
Post by: Conle on January 17, 2010, 04:47:19 PM
Quote
Conle said that you shouldn't change save type in body harvest, but it uses eep4k, so if you leave it in "card", how the hell do you have the game save?
You have to use a 4keeprom cart?

Yes im using a 4Kb eeprom cart for this game.When the new menu is released , only then we could tell if its just a bug in the programmer or a bug in the core.

By the way , there are many games that when you set manually the CIC/Save type they won't boot.

For example , try to set 6105 CIC(the correct) for Jet force gemini & you will get a black screen.
Title: Re: Testers(and not only!) dump thread
Post by: radorn on January 17, 2010, 10:39:46 PM
Jet force gemini loads fine with setting CIC type in menu in my case.
The problem is that if I use a cart with a CIC that doesn't match, the game will show the protection code limitations (no shooting and no running). Of course it doesn't save either (which is already known), but it does load with boot emulation for me.

Going back to body harvest again, I think you may have missed it, or not paid attention, but one of the first things I said is that, when I first tried (I don't remember wether I was using core 1.0 or had already updated to 1.1 at that time, but I think it was 1.1), body harvest (U) loaded AND SAVED fine. heck, I could even backup the save and use it on project 64, and my game was there. It's now that it isn't working anymore, which makes this even more strange.
Title: Re: Testers(and not only!) dump thread
Post by: neo-diy on January 19, 2010, 06:44:38 PM
The SAVE TYPE hardware has to support, do you want to save on your N64 CARD can also be, you can SAVE TYPE election CARD

MODEA <reserved