Neo TeAm Forum

NEO Coding Competitions => The past Neo Coding Compos => NEO Compo 2012 => Topic started by: Dr.neo on September 10, 2012, 03:44:56 PM

Title: The final result of NEO Retro Coding Compo 2012
Post by: Dr.neo on September 10, 2012, 03:44:56 PM
   The final result of NEO Retro Coding Compo 2012   
   Here are the top 3 for the GAMEs division and APPs division of this compo, we don't know have too much entries join finally and this compo have top3 limit, so we have to set dual #3 winners for the game division,maybe next year we should increase the winners rank to top 5 :)   
      
      
   The Game division, total 20 entries   Author
No.1   [SNES Game] MazezaM Challenge   By alekmaul
No.2   [GBA Game] A Werewolf Tale - WIP   By genecyst
No.3   [PCE Game] Island Adventure   By sarang
No.3   [N64 Game] Yeti3D Pro   By ChillyWilly



   The App division, total 11 entries   Author
No.1   [NDS App] FPS Maker   By smealum
No.2   [NDS App] AnimEDS: Animation Editor for DS   By PypeBros
No.3   [N64 App] ControllerTest   By sanni


    Congrats to all winners,please tell me what prize you want in this topic:
http://www.neoflash.com/forum/index.php/topic,7503.0.html

    See you are Aug. 2013  >:D
Title: Re: The final result of NEO Retro Coding Compo 2012
Post by: Sektor on September 10, 2012, 03:55:29 PM
Congratulations! I'm not sure how you picked the order but good to see game entries for 10+ year old systems winning a retro comp.

I see you generously added an extra prize just for ChillyWilly  ~sm-60.gif~.gif
Title: Re: The final result of NEO Retro Coding Compo 2012
Post by: dieudunet on September 10, 2012, 04:04:58 PM
I'm totally disapointed by that result.

I always thought that a Coding Compo is a technical challenge.

MazezaM is a good small game , well coded. But without any technical particularity.

I really dont understand on which parameters are based this winner list.



Title: Re: The final result of NEO Retro Coding Compo 2012
Post by: Sektor on September 10, 2012, 04:09:13 PM
I really dont understand on which parameters are based this winner list.
The parameters for neoflash comps have always been very vague. It's usually just left to each judge's discretion and there weren't many judges/reviews this time around. That's one thing that needs clarification for next year. The competition needs updated rules that detail the criteria (how points will be awarded).

Gameplay, graphics and sound often win over code quality/complexity but that's the same with most game coding competitions. Code quality is difficult to judge when not everyone releases their code and the judges aren't experts in the language or system. This also isn't a competition about coding the most efficient algorithm, so it has to be subjective.
Title: Re: The final result of NEO Retro Coding Compo 2012
Post by: dieudunet on September 10, 2012, 04:29:59 PM
For sure there's a need for clarification.

So for the next compo it will be important to have, before competition, the notation system.




Title: Re: The final result of NEO Retro Coding Compo 2012
Post by: genecyst on September 10, 2012, 05:04:57 PM
Thanks a lot guys! ~sm-78.gif~.gif

I totally agree about winners Mazezam and Island adventure, i'm still playing and loving them a lot.
Title: Re: The final result of NEO Retro Coding Compo 2012
Post by: m.rr on September 10, 2012, 05:51:03 PM
Totally dissapointed, cannot believe Controller Test came third. Seems you do not give importance to PSP Apps.

Title: Re: The final result of NEO Retro Coding Compo 2012
Post by: 10$man on September 10, 2012, 06:23:06 PM
Totally dissapointed, cannot believe Controller Test came third. Seems you do not give importance to PSP Apps.


I'm not by any means going to point out apps that I believe should have won or lost, but it does seem a little more useful to have this wifi hacking tool then a controller testing program.

Congratulations to the winners!
I'l definitely be entering again next year :)

Thank you Dr.neo for your support of the homebrew scene on almost all platforms!
Title: Re: The final result of NEO Retro Coding Compo 2012
Post by: NightFox on September 10, 2012, 08:19:18 PM
No comments...
But we realy need a clarification about the rules.

Btw, congrats to the winners.
Title: Re: The final result of NEO Retro Coding Compo 2012
Post by: smealum on September 10, 2012, 10:06:39 PM
I was kind of expecting ACOTSYE to get in third in the game's section, but that's fine, I'm already very happy with what I did win.  ~sm-67.gif~.gif

congratulations to everyone, especially alekmaul ! and thanks to neoflash for organizing this competition.

I'm totally disapointed by that result.

I always thought that a Coding Compo is a technical challenge.

MazezaM is a good small game , well coded. But without any technical particularity.

I really dont understand on which parameters are based this winner list.
this is really more of a game/app making than just purely coding. Otherwise, it might as well be a demo competition.
Title: Re: The final result of NEO Retro Coding Compo 2012
Post by: Dr.neo on September 10, 2012, 10:20:28 PM
maybe we should open the public poll in next year like the beginning?
Title: Re: The final result of NEO Retro Coding Compo 2012
Post by: PypeBros on September 10, 2012, 10:55:29 PM
maybe we should open the public poll in next year like the beginning?
if "public poll" means "people on the internet vote", that's (imho) too easy to cheat and lacks any professional feeling.

What imho would be welcome would be a small pro/cons list for each entries, like "granted, App X looks nice, but we haven't found any significant way to *use* it" or "visuals may be fine in game Y, but sound is quite lame compared to what the device can achieve" ... well, whatever *your* reasons are.

That being said, Smealum's entry was clearly superior to my little app, and being in the top-3 is already a good surprise to me.
Title: Re: The final result of NEO Retro Coding Compo 2012
Post by: theloon on September 10, 2012, 10:56:22 PM
I think TIGSource goes by a vote tally.  Can't remember exactly, but you get 4 votes to spread around any contest entry.

Mazezam was definiely technically challenging being an SNES title.  Everything was very well polished.  I don't understand the criteria the other winners met to get their standing.  So I can neither approve or disapprove.

I won the moment I sent in my entry which was started one week from the deadline.  Also, I was the most retro platform of any other entry.  I've got nothing to complain about here :)
Title: Re: The final result of NEO Retro Coding Compo 2012
Post by: Sektor on September 10, 2012, 11:04:23 PM
I don't think a poll helps but criteria for judging would be good.

Drunkencoders.com gave games a score out of 40:

Graphics: 5
Sound: 5
Music: 5
Controls: 5
Network: 5
Fun: 10
Theme: 5

They also describe graphics, sound, music, controls, network, fun and theme here:
http://web.archive.org/web/20100416051455/http://www.thepernproject.com/compo/currentMatrix.php

Something like that would be good for neoflash competitions.

My suggestion (I'll willing to change it):

Graphics: 5
Sound: 5
Music: 5
Controls: 5
Network/Multiplayer: 5 (not sure how this would apply to consoles that don't have easy/any network support)
Fun: 10
SNES/MD/N64: Entries for these systems get 5 bonus points (12.5%).

As long as it's subjective, there are always going to be some people disappointed but that's unavoidable.

It's hard to write criteria when there are so many platforms allowed. Would a judge ever give an Atari 2600 game a 5/5 for graphics? The judge would have to take into account each system and know their graphics capabilities or at least played lots of games on that system.
Title: Re: The final result of NEO Retro Coding Compo 2012
Post by: Mr. Reaper on September 11, 2012, 01:18:22 AM
Yeah, we participants would like to have seen comments from the judges on each of the games to get an idea of how each game was ranked.

Of course I wish I could have won something, but I know this site is not really oriented toward the Wii (and maybe not all the of judges even have a Wii!) -- it seems the game systems with flash carts get more favor.

But I'm not really complaining; at least the competition motivated me to make and improve my Wii games -- I may not have done that otherwise.


Title: Re: The final result of NEO Retro Coding Compo 2012
Post by: alekmaul on September 11, 2012, 02:14:25 AM
1st of all, very happy that MazezaM wins this compo, i did lot's of effort to have something really fun to play.

I always thought that a Coding Compo is a technical challenge.
Well, Dr Neo never said that it will be a technical challenge; I think the vote was more about game design, gameplay and fun about them and judges feelings of course.

But I agree about the fact that if a new compo begin next year, we need more rules about criteria.
Also, I don't think a poll helps but again, criteria for judging would be good.
Title: Re: The final result of NEO Retro Coding Compo 2012
Post by: 10$man on September 11, 2012, 02:58:25 AM
Yeah, we participants would like to have seen comments from the judges on each of the games to get an idea of how each game was ranked.

Of course I wish I could have won something, but I know this site is not really oriented toward the Wii (and maybe not all the of judges even have a Wii!) -- it seems the game systems with flash carts get more favor.

But I'm not really complaining; at least the competition motivated me to make and improve my Wii games -- I may not have done that otherwise.



Totally agree. Especially about the first part.

I'm interested in seeing how the games were ranked THIS time.
I sure hope it wasn't a "I like this better then that, so this wins".
I don't think a poll helps but criteria for judging would be good.

Drunkencoders.com gave games a score out of 40:

Graphics: 5
Sound: 5
Music: 5
Controls: 5
Network: 5
Fun: 10
Theme: 5

They also describe graphics, sound, music, controls, network, fun and theme here:
http://web.archive.org/web/20100416051455/http://www.thepernproject.com/compo/currentMatrix.php

Something like that would be good for neoflash competitions.

My suggestion (I'll willing to change it):

Graphics: 5
Sound: 5
Music: 5
Controls: 5
Network/Multiplayer: 5 (not sure how this would apply to consoles that don't have easy/any network support)
Fun: 10
SNES/MD/N64: Entries for these systems get 5 bonus points (12.5%).

As long as it's subjective, there are always going to be some people disappointed but that's unavoidable.

It's hard to write criteria when there are so many platforms allowed. Would a judge ever give an Atari 2600 game a 5/5 for graphics? The judge would have to take into account each system and know their graphics capabilities or at least played lots of games on that system.
I think this sounds good.


But, as always, thank you Dr.neo and I'l keep coming back!
Title: Re: The final result of NEO Retro Coding Compo 2012
Post by: BassAceGold on September 11, 2012, 03:02:40 AM
Since there were no posts in my topic regarding BAGASM and its use. Was there any difficulties in testing my program? Is there anything I can do to improve its ease of use? Is the documentation written well enough?

I was hoping to get some useful feedback in this competition, but sadly, no one has said anything to help me out.

Also, congrats to the winners!  ~sm-78.gif~.gif
Title: Re: The final result of NEO Retro Coding Compo 2012
Post by: KungFuFurby on September 11, 2012, 09:13:46 AM
Whoa, nellie! My music is in a winner!  ::sm-18.gif::  ~sm-69.gif~.gif  ;D  ::sm-29.gif::

I don't go for the cash myself.

Maybe someday I'll actually make a SNES game myself... I don't have any library in particular in mind except for using SNESMod as the sound driver.
Title: Re: The final result of NEO Retro Coding Compo 2012
Post by: leinad on September 13, 2012, 04:59:45 PM
Congratulations to all winners! Pretty weird to se no NDS-Game in the winning list :3

   [...] ,maybe next year we should increase the winners rank to top 5 :)   

[...]

    See you are Aug. 2013  >:D

Yay! No plans to discontinue the compo, 'I like'


@Judging: A Poll would mainly just favour those who can market themself best, not neccessarily the best project (Pick up some super-duper-wanted-port like SMBB -> beg for attention at random boards -> get thrown with material/posts/votes).   A point system might give some people satisfaction, but especially after this compo with a overall very high quality, you even could have come up with some Ratings after randomly picking some winners :p
Title: Re: The final result of NEO Retro Coding Compo 2012
Post by: sanni on September 13, 2012, 05:26:32 PM
Instead of making a 1st, 2nd, 3rd winner we could award stars for special things like in the Mario Party games. Every star can only be won once. ~sm-65.gif~.gif

For example 5 stars, each star is worth $100 as a prize or something like that.

One star could be "Most fun to play". So what ever game the judges enjoyed to most wins this star and the prize money that comes with it.

Another star could be "best technical achievement". So the game that is most astonishing from a technical view wins this star.

Or "Best art style". "Best Music" .. you name it  ~sm-84.gif~.gif

This way programmers could aim at what star they would like to win like in the Mario Party games where you collect the most coins because you know at the end you will get the most-coins star.  :D

It would also make judging easier because it's really hard to decide which game is better if all of them are so great. ~sm-64.gif~.gif
Title: Re: The final result of NEO Retro Coding Compo 2012
Post by: Sektor on September 13, 2012, 05:36:59 PM
I like sanni's idea  ~sm-37.gif~
Title: Re: The final result of NEO Retro Coding Compo 2012
Post by: theloon on September 14, 2012, 12:30:14 AM
Since there were no posts in my topic regarding BAGASM and its use. Was there any difficulties in testing my program? Is there anything I can do to improve its ease of use? Is the documentation written well enough?

I was hoping to get some useful feedback in this competition, but sadly, no one has said anything to help me out.

Also, congrats to the winners!  ~sm-78.gif~.gif

Honestly it was not retro enough to be useful for me.  If your interpreter could compile for NES, SNES, Genesis or even GBA I'd be all over it :)
Title: Re: The final result of NEO Retro Coding Compo 2012
Post by: 10$man on September 14, 2012, 06:36:36 PM
Instead of making a 1st, 2nd, 3rd winner we could award stars for special things like in the Mario Party games. Every star can only be won once. ~sm-65.gif~.gif

For example 5 stars, each star is worth $100 as a prize or something like that.

One star could be "Most fun to play". So what ever game the judges enjoyed to most wins this star and the prize money that comes with it.

Another star could be "best technical achievement". So the game that is most astonishing from a technical view wins this star.

Or "Best art style". "Best Music" .. you name it  ~sm-84.gif~.gif

This way programmers could aim at what star they would like to win like in the Mario Party games where you collect the most coins because you know at the end you will get the most-coins star.  :D

It would also make judging easier because it's really hard to decide which game is better if all of them are so great. ~sm-64.gif~.gif
I like this as well!
So someone could work towards a specific spot that suits them best and no matter what system you program for, you still could have an equal chance as everyone else! ~sm-66.gif~.gif
Title: Re: The final result of NEO Retro Coding Compo 2012
Post by: BassAceGold on September 18, 2012, 08:03:05 AM
Honestly it was not retro enough to be useful for me.  If your interpreter could compile for NES, SNES, Genesis or even GBA I'd be all over it :)

(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j12/BassAceGold/Misc%20Code/circlesgba.png)

Wasn't too hard to port the NDS version to GBA.  ~sm-69.gif~.gif