Author Topic: iR Shell been to another Compo before?  (Read 20515 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline AhMan

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 37
iR Shell been to another Compo before?
« on: September 04, 2006, 02:10:45 PM »
I just read a comment made by one of the judges, cory1492, over at pspupdates.com front page.

Quote from: cory1492
if you didnt know, iRshell has been entered in previous compos. There is not much different since before.

I just want to state this is totally false.  iR Shell has never joined any compos besides this one.  Rating an entry based on false information isn't really professional to me.

Offline Sektor

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 394
    • gtamp.com/DS
Re: iR Shell been to another Compo before?
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2006, 06:06:51 PM »
From the comments and rating, it doesn't look like it effected your score.  The fact that previous versions had been released is likely to effect things, it can give you a boost by already having a fan base but it also lacks the surprise factor of something completely new.  2nd place is still great and you could pick a prize with a dollar value more than the Wii will cost.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2006, 06:13:03 PM by Sektor »

Offline AhMan

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 37
Re: iR Shell been to another Compo before?
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2006, 06:41:33 PM »
Sektor, I would have no issues if the judges take off points on an entry 'cos it has previous released to public, but I don't think this is the case here.  Look at NDS Game & App divisions, both 1st prize winners Beup & MegaETK had public releases before the compo and they both won. 

I made this post just to state the info that the judge cory1492 gave to the public is false.  I do believe this false info made him ranked iR Shell as #3 in his rating.  Anyway, I know the scores are final and I just wanted the judges and ppl to get the facts straight.

Offline cory1492

  • Neo MOD
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1443
    • Cory1492's NDS + PSP corner
Re: iR Shell been to another Compo before?
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2006, 07:39:51 PM »
My mistake AhMan, I thought it had been entered here in the last compo.

Myself, I only actually took off points for originality, since it is not the first shell/launcher app on the PSP (XMB, psp to USB etc - not even counting homebrew apps like psplink). It would have actually scored much lower in that area if it had not included the iR functionalitly.

My goal was to compare the entries together, not to really care if it has been "out there" before. I personally dont find iRshell all that useful myself, and a little annoying with the way it delays when changing to the "alternate" menus, but I digress, it is great work and everything actually works...
« Last Edit: September 06, 2006, 04:10:41 PM by cory1492 »
Those who have come here to hate should leave now, for in their hatred they only betray themselves.
translated from The Book of Life (Src: Sword of Truth - Phantom by Terry Goodkind)

Offline AhMan

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 37
Re: iR Shell been to another Compo before?
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2006, 09:19:59 AM »
cory1492, thanks for taking the time to respond and clarify your public statement.  I do appreciate it.

Since you're saying iR Shell doesn't has much originality, I just want to make a response to your comment.  Up until now, iR Shell is the one and only multi-tasking shell available for the PSP, even XMB doesn't support multi-tasking.  In case you haven't aware yet, you can use iR Shell to launch a UMD game or homebrew, at the same time, play any of your favorite mp3s.  Then, switch from the UMD Game/homebrew to iR Shell and send any files or directoires to your friend's PSP over Ad-Hoc WiFi.  While the files are being sent, use the built-in IR Universal remote to change your TV channel.  Then, switch back and resume your UMD Game/homebrew at the point you left.  While you're now continue to play the UMD game/homebrew, the mp3s are still playing and the files are still being sent over to your friend's PSP in the background.  To be honest, the multi-tasking part of iR Shell is the most difficult & challenging part to implement, due to the fact the PSP isn't designed to be a multi-tasking machine.  Maybe going from a single tasking MS-DOS to a multitasking Windows OS isn't innovative in some people's mind.  Anyway, this is just my opinion and you may think otherwise.

Offline Terdinglage

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
Re: iR Shell been to another Compo before?
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2006, 11:57:09 AM »
My mistake AhMan, I thought it had been entered here in the last compo.

Myself, I only actually took off points for origionality, since it is not the first shell/launcher app on the PSP (XMB, psp to USB etc - not even counting homebrew apps like psplink). It would have actually scored much lower in that area if it had not included the iR functionalitly.

My goal was to compare the entries together, not to really care if it has been "out there" before. I personally dont find iRshell all that useful myself, and a little annoying with the way it delays when changing to the "alternate" menus, but I digress, it is great work and everything actually works...

 >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(

That explaination is horribly discusting to me.  Obiously you did not delve into the program at all.  iR Shell is by far the most useful app available for the PSP, and what Ahman has done with it has improved the PSP by leaps and bounds.  Thanks to iR Shell, the PSP can join the ranks with the Xbox 360 as one of the only multitasking gaming consoles out there.  Not only that, it improves every app made by any other dev since it gives it the ability to play music in the background of the action.  With wifi and usb support for launching all your homebrew, it gives ways to get around having a small memory stick, and integrates every aspect of the "other" applications that you deem make it unoriginal.  As far as I'm concerned, iR Shell is the most ORIGINAL and only good shell out there.  Comparing it to other wannabe shells is not only disrespectful to all of Ahmans work, but down right insulting.  All in all, I, and this goes for most other PSP users, amdiscusted with the results of this poll, and most of all the unprofessionalism of YOUR judgment in particular.

PS: Oh, and by the way, you could at least spell original right. 

Offline pspfan

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 14
Re: iR Shell been to another Compo before?
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2006, 03:11:23 PM »
(Terdinglage, just a tip, don't get mad at people for spelling mistakes, you made one yourself--disgusting. I'll probably make some spelling errors in my post, too. Anyway, I know that's not what you're mad about.)

Anyway, I agree with AhMan and Terdinglage. iR Shell is the most original shell, one of the most creative homebrews out there. Since AhMan has gone over the big thing of iR Shell (multi-tasking), I'll go through the other features which you don't knwo because you obviously didn't read the ReadMe or even just play around with iR Shell or look at the Help screen, all of which would've showed you many of the other features that iR Shell does that ARE original. Anyway, here's the list of pretty much what it can do, it's not in depth, but I could make it so if you please.

-Do basic shell functions (launch homebrew, launch UMD, usb mode, exit back to shell from homebrew/umd, file browser, date/time/battery info display)
-Be an IR remote for over 2000 devices (and I think it's over 6000 devices if you download more than just the remote on the website)
-Take screenshots of homebrew, UMD, XMB, pretty much everything
-View images (.bmp, .jpg, .png)
-MP3 player that can run in the background of your UMDs and homebrew that are launched from iR Shell, has basic functions like pause/play, stop, next, previous, volume +/-, can make playlists
-Change CPU speed
-Switching between launched homebrew or UMD and iR Shell (to change your MP3 playlist or something like that)
-Transfer files to another PSP via Ad Hoc connection
-Skinnable
-Can run file manipulation functions (copy, paste, delete, rename)
-Configurator which lets you customize things like default CPU speed, date/time display, skin and put a password on file manipulating or entering the configurator
-Can lock the PSP so that a password is needed to continue
-PSP headphone remote control support for MP3 player
-Support for user plugins (EBOOTS to run a specific filetype).
-Support for UMD browsing
-Support for USB host file system browsing (remotely browse and run files on your PC via USB)
-Support for Infrastructure WiFi host (net host) file system browsing (remotely browse and run files on your PC via Infrastructure WiFi)
-Can redirect usbhost or nethost to the memory stick (allows proper homebrew streaming from the PC as well as MP4 streaming)
-Can launch the XMB from iR Shell and exit back to it (can do most XMB functions from here except play UMDs and launch homebrew, this is how you stream MP4 movies from your PC when connected and redirected)
-Alarm clock function
-Low battery warning
-Existing plugins (it can runs these files): PMP, AT3, PMF, ZIP, RAR, TXT, and some more on the official forums ( www.irshell.com/forum )
-Use an Ad Hoc internet connection for homebrew or for nethost

Offline AhMan

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 37
Re: iR Shell been to another Compo before?
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2006, 05:30:32 PM »
Guys, there is no need to go personal.  I don't agree cory's point on iR Shell's originality, but I must say he has my respect 'cos not many judges will bother to explain how they rated the entries.  Pls maintain a healthy and open discussion.

Offline Ecoles

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1
Re: iR Shell been to another Compo before?
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2006, 06:00:21 PM »
Saying that IRShell is just another PSP shell is like saying that the amazing Swiss Army knife is just another knife. One tends to forget the fact that IRShell not only does the shelling, but it also has PMP, text, zip and mp3 abilities, and that's not even touching it's ability to run almost any homebrew out there.

When you add to that the host and link functions, transforming your computer into a huge memory stick for your psp, this becomes a no brainer.

Saying IRShell has no originality is like saying that the wheel was original either. If everyone listed to that guy, we would still be running around nowadays with logs under everything.

All I can say is that personally, and I really don't think I'm the only one, I couldn't even use my PSP without IRShell. And that's easily noticiable since this is the only homebrew I have on all 3 memory sticks I have. Like I've said before, AhMan, yer number one in my book.

Offline StoneCut

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 19
Re: iR Shell been to another Compo before?
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2006, 06:29:56 PM »
So, in the end, iR Shell won the public poll by a land-slide but the judges decide it's not innovative enough and presumably entered a different compo before. Meaning: iR Shell does not get what it deserves after 8 months of continuous refinement of the program ...

You know, I'd be extremely ticked off had I been the one that coded iR Shell !

I feel for you, AhMan !!! Just don't enter any compos anymore where the public doesn't count !

Offline cory1492

  • Neo MOD
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1443
    • Cory1492's NDS + PSP corner
Re: iR Shell been to another Compo before?
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2006, 06:51:11 PM »
StoneCut: I can only speak for myself, not the other judges. I rated it 3rd. To me, it isnt all that original to integrate others' open source projects to extend the functionality, and duplicate functions I already perform with the default XMB. I personally was under the impression AhMan continued coding it for all his iRshell fans and not this compo... though I could be wrong on that point since I don't personally know AhMan. By the way, the public vote did count, as much as one judge... possible cheaters as well got their say.

Ecoles: who said that? I didnt. I just said it lost points on my scorecard for originality because alot of what it does I was able to do without it, before it, sometimes without running a homebrew app at all (ie: xmb and its USB connection). iRshell, aside from the XMB, is the only shell I have run more than once (and both those other days it was to see if I had finally found a proper pronto code to make the app useful to me), so I honestly couldnt compare it directly to anyone elses projects.

AhMan, you got alot of points for a solid app that does what it is supposed to well (within the limits I was able to test it, no wifi AP, no headphone remote).

Most of your extensions were made by other coders before being integrated, and some of the features are simpler for me to use from the originals for the things they were made to be used for.

I think if there had been alot more PSP entries, your app still would have scored very high with me even though I find no personal use for multitasking things in a round-about way of running a program to run a program, especially when there seemed to be no real "crash recovery" - I froze it twice in that I remember being annoyed the return hotkey didnt work, when testing it. Whatever genius or time went into the code, I dont know, but I can see the app and say it "works as its supposed to" (which, imho, is alot more than I can say about some things I have coded).

As it stands, I personally have enough semi "multi-tasking" (with vshexec.prx and dark alex's custom firmware loading it at the get-go), MP3's, video and image viewing in my XMB, and awesome compatibility with my 4G microdrive (when I want to use media files) with the original PMP player. (That I guess is something to note, quitting bookr extension using its exit function on the 4gig causes a "game could not be launched" error.) Unless someone can find a simple way to capture new remotes... I doubt I will find a home on my PSP for iRshell.
 ???
You other two (now three)
Some people simply dont get that the features they list can be had by dedicated, smaller (slack space) apps that were generally made before being "absorbed" into iRshell and only need to be run when I want them to do what they were made for, wrather than launched from within a shell that has to be fit into a process, to do things I dont really care/need to do.

In fact, I'd bet alot of the "inspiration" came from apps I already use... like bookr (txt/pdb/pdf reader) and psplink (usb/wifi/serial host access) ( both of which are open source) and the XMB's shortcomings. Though I also bet, in turn, that psplink has also benefited from AhMan's work on the link code.

You'd act like some of the features built into iRshell should be a big surprise to me, as if I didnt actually consider them when I was trying them. I get it though, your fanatics and you appreciate AhMans work (just not in the same light I do, which is more of a "holy crud, how did you do that so it works like that?" kind of thing).
-What good is a iR remote program that doesnt have codes for every major device I own except the xbox and the family PS2 (my own doesnt have an IR receiver)? And yeah, I even went to the point of trying my brothers Palm Pilot to capture the codes, only it has bluetooth instead of iR, and PalmOS isnt all that helpful anyway. (I still tested it, and still consider it the "orgional" factor in this app)
-What good is playing MP3's "anywhere" when you only want to play the $60 game or lovingly crafted homebrew game as it was made to be played?
-What good is a program that you have to re-run every time you crash the PSP and want to run something else, when you could just run what you wanted instead?
-What good is having a hotkey to take screenshots... when you probably wont ever take screenshots? (or could just use the other screenshot app?)
-What good is host access when it ties you to a PC by a usb cable?
-What good is setting up iRShell first and going through it, to test compo entries... only to find it simpler to do it the "old way" (ie:original way) instead of on the spot learning and adjusting to iRshell?

PS: I'm still spelling original wrong, somewhere along the way my fingers learned it wrong so it will take some breaking of bad habits. Thanks for pointing it out because it did indeed look correct to me (and in case you didnt know, the spell check button has never worked for me on this site yet).
PPS: I have a fake MS Duo, and no matter how many people say differently, I still know its not original.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2006, 07:02:15 PM by cory1492 »
Those who have come here to hate should leave now, for in their hatred they only betray themselves.
translated from The Book of Life (Src: Sword of Truth - Phantom by Terry Goodkind)

Offline StoneCut

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 19
Re: iR Shell been to another Compo before?
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2006, 07:40:46 PM »
cory1492

In response to your "What good is ..." questions I'd like to clarify some things about iR Shell you might not know.

* Slasher's MP3 plugin for the XMB is entirely based on iR Shell's Mp3 player PRX, which again is a heavily edited version from neogeoCD ...

* The iR remotes database is fully compatible with Philips Pronto devices which costs several hundred dollars. iR Shell shares the SAME iR code base and you can get the Pronto Pack which has all devices from remotecentral.com from a particular date at the iR Shell homepage. If you think that's not enough codes, complain to Philips for not having your device code in their Pronto database and not AhMan. I don't think there's a more extensive database in existence for programmable iR remotes, however ...

* I know lots of games that have terrible, repetitive music where the mp3 player in iR Shell is ultimately useful ... turn down the ingame music, just leave the SFX and finally get to listen to some fresh tunes in NFSMW ...

* Most screenshot apps only allow you to take screenshots of homebrew. iR Shell's plugin can take screenshots of 1.x/2.x UMDs, VideoUMDs and MP4 files. And if you don't need it, don't use it ...

* Host-Access is also available via NetHostFS, not only USBhostFS.

I also have a counter-question: What good is a GPS app without a GPS receiver ? About as useful as a scanned map of my home-town coupled with a zooming image viewer ... now there's an idea !

* I don't need to re-run iR Shell ever because my PSP boots straight into it and goes to sleep with it. I can even return from DevHook'ed UMDs and from a higher firmware in XMB, all the while listening to a song (or transferring a gamesave to my friend via adhoc WiFi etc.) without interruption.

And for your final "What good is ..." question:

* Well, a new software always needs getting used to (more than 5 minutes). The new menu is dead easy. Lots of new users say that. I also never need to leave iR Shell because iR Shell can not only replicate the existing XMB functions, but can do so much more without me having to launch a new homebrew for every little thing I need to do from that very same XMB over and over again. That's the whole purpose of a shell. And iR Shell kicks the XMB's ass as far as functionality and usefulnes.

Strangely, my PSP never crashes, either ... maybe because I use iR Shell exclusively ? :=)
« Last Edit: September 06, 2006, 07:45:10 PM by StoneCut »

Offline AhMan

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 37
Re: iR Shell been to another Compo before?
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2006, 12:58:14 AM »
cory1492, first you accused iR Shell had joined a previous compo without getting your facts straight.  Now, your "what good is <a feature> if you don't use it" comment really disgrace a developer.  I find it hard to believe these comments are made by a compo judge.  If I follow your logic, what good is a gps map viewer if I don't have a gps receiver?  What good is a sega master emulator if I don't play master games?  Shall I go on for every single entry in NeoFlash compo?  I wished I could take back the respect I said about you in my previous post, since you don't have any respects for developers.

First, your comment on iR Shell doesn't has much originality 'cos there are other shells before it.  Now, you said iR Shell not being original by integrating other open source projects.  Yeah, iR Shell did use some of the open source from the community, namely the mp3 libmad library (the neogeocd modified version), jpeg library, png library, usbhostfs from psplink and various plugins.  FYI, the nethostfs source and zip & rar archive plugin were donated into iR Shell by Dark Alex and AnonymousTipster, not the way you described "being absorbed into iR Shell".  Since you rated the originality pretty high for MapThis, do you even know the background of it?  Or are you just guessing that it's original, like the way you guessed iR Shell had joined a previous compo?  Let me give you the facts, since you've difficulty in finding out yourself.  MapThis is not the first GPS project on PSP, just like iR Shell not being the first shell on PSP.  Art is the one who made the first GPS project for PSP.  If you don't know who is Art, I suggest you to get more involve in the PSP scene.   You must also think MapThis doesn't use any of the open source from the community.  I wonder if you know how it displays images?  Hmm, you must have thought deniska implemented his own jpeg & png libraries instead of using open source one.  I also wonder if you know the On Screen Keyboard is from Danzel?  How about the zip unarchiving, you also think deniska implemented his own?  For the GPS serial interfacing, you must also believe deniska invented them, instead of borrowing it from psplink's serial console.  Now, I think people really know how professional you are as a judge.

PS. Thanks to StoneCut for listing some facts about iR Shell and saving me from tedious typing.

Offline Sektor

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 394
    • gtamp.com/DS
Re: iR Shell been to another Compo before?
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2006, 04:36:57 AM »
What's wrong with judging something based on how useful it would be to you personally?  There're many ways to rate programs and for this contest it seems the methods were left up to the judges.  Most people didn't vote based on how hard it would have been to code.  Most of the people who voted for the SMS emulator are probably SMS fans.  You could vote for something based on how useful it would be to others but no one said that was a requirement of voting.

A list of reasons that state why certain features of an app are not useful, should not be considered an insult.  It's just an explaination of an opinion.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2006, 05:12:28 AM by Sektor »

Offline sinX

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
Re: iR Shell been to another Compo before?
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2006, 04:47:58 AM »
Well, in my opinion cory1492's comments made not a lot of sense. That thing about mp3's.....wait here it is
Quote
-What good is playing MP3's "anywhere" when you only want to play the $60 game or lovingly crafted homebrew game as it was made to be played?
.....I personally get tired of the same music after awhile . While I'm at it .......
Quote
-What good is a iR remote program that doesn't have codes for every major device I own
...... I found codes for every device in house, the code wasn't always for my specific model so I had to find a similar one most of the time. And screen shots......oh man... I take screen shots all the time.  I consider iR Shell one of the most useful apps for PSP and I use it daily!