Author Topic: the final result of NEO Spring Compo 2007!  (Read 36248 times)

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Offline Payk

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Re: the final result of NEO Spring Compo 2007!
« Reply #45 on: April 16, 2007, 06:29:13 AM »
Sorry for getting mad, but i didn't understood who to say "fake drama" to someone who fights for something what he thinks it the right thing.
I didn't wanted to attack you or stuff. Just was wondering if that statement really was from you...

Offline Neil

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Re: the final result of NEO Spring Compo 2007!
« Reply #46 on: April 16, 2007, 12:44:45 PM »
kevinc has surfaced now and made it clear that HtheB has basically minimal input on the beup client.  Therefore surely the prize should go to the person who actually did all the work?  Either that, or the first prize should be disqualified and it should be sent to the person who finished second.  HtheB should NOT receive it though, and it would be a disgrace if he did.  It would surely just lead to similar source-stealing (and the associated 'drama') in future contests, and I'm sure that's the last thing everyone wants.

Offline Payk

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Re: the final result of NEO Spring Compo 2007!
« Reply #47 on: April 16, 2007, 01:44:29 PM »
I wouldn't have believed that he did that less. In that case its quite clear in my opinion. PPL like him are the reason why i would take care to release the source. And that's sick in such a scene :(

PS: He still makes great music. Maybe he should focus on that!
But when i would see projects of him, i now would always wonder how much he actually did. Dude, that's an image which you just ****ed up!
HtheB: You told me that you change the entire structure and stuff!
With 15 lines? I am disappointed!

Offline Sektor

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Re: the final result of NEO Spring Compo 2007!
« Reply #48 on: April 16, 2007, 04:32:24 PM »
Even 15 lines can take hours of work (even one tiny bug can take hours to find).    Many developers spend much longer on their projects but is their app useful to the judges/voters?  I wouldn't vote for an offline drawing app because I don't draw but the author of that did put a lot more effort into it.  I think the problem is that there is no scorecard, judges need specific rules for judging.

Offline jester

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Re: the final result of NEO Spring Compo 2007!
« Reply #49 on: April 16, 2007, 05:08:26 PM »
disqualified and left till summer 07 with beup disqualified from ever entering again!

That is correct and Dr.Neo should implement this method to enable the summer contestants to have more prizes as more candidates enter in the summer!

Offline Payk

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Re: the final result of NEO Spring Compo 2007!
« Reply #50 on: April 16, 2007, 06:23:00 PM »
Quote
Even 15 lines can take hours of work (even one tiny bug can take hours to find).    Many developers spend much longer on their projects but is their app useful to the judges/voters?  I wouldn't vote for an offline drawing app because I don't draw but the author of that did put a lot more effort into it.  I think the problem is that there is no scorecard, judges need specific rules for judging.

Yes they can take hours. But they won't have token that many hours that Phidias needed! My project has about 7283 lines code (because it uses scripts/maps/models/textures. On that way most stuff is outsourced to files and i only have that "few" lines). It tocked me almost one year to make it!
Kevinc made more then 9000 lines. That must have been much work, he actually deserves the Wii more then I do. Phidias should have more then 2000 (I guess! maybe its even much more).

So Phidias should get 2th even if Tassu spend more then 200x effort in it then HtheB? It's a coding competition. He can't win with 15 lines over someone with more then 2000 lines. Even if these 15 lines are totally great.
BTW i know that Tassu is a really great coder and i don't assume HthB's 15 lines beat all lines of Tassus code!

Offline Sektor

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Re: the final result of NEO Spring Compo 2007!
« Reply #51 on: April 16, 2007, 07:38:13 PM »
It's not just about the amount of effort though.  Someone could make a complex 3D game but the gameplay might be horrible, so it shouldn't win first prize.  I don't know, I spent no effort on my PSP app and I already got my prize, so i'm happy.  If I got 11 place or 2nd place on NDS APPS then I would want Beup disqualified.

A 110v Japanese region Wii wouldn't be much use to someone who didn't have an expensive step down convertor and it will need a region modification to play PAL/US games.  One of the prizes that even 10th place can get, is worth almost as much as the Wii.  I don't think the Japanese Wii includes Wii sports.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2007, 07:50:52 PM by Sektor »

Offline Payk

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Re: the final result of NEO Spring Compo 2007!
« Reply #52 on: April 16, 2007, 08:40:28 PM »
Well, it has nothing to do with which place you are or stuff. I will have my Wii, I ordered a step down converter and I also play Japanese games on my Sega Saturn. I don't care the language for some games. (I prefer shooters where language doesn't matter at all).

And of course effort is the issue. You can't really tell me that you would let somebody win a CODING COMPO who just tocked a source, updated server stuff and made a new skin. Can you actually read?
Try reading that one: "NEO Coding Competitions". Its the thread where you can find this topic! Let me explain the combination of this 3 complex words.
Neo is a short cut for Neoflash.
Coding means to create data which can be read from a machine (for example nds)
Compo is a short cut for competition.

Ok if you bring the last two words together, what do we have there?
Yes! A competition where the main aim is to create codes which runs on machines in order to do (great) stuff. So if you take a code, for example for an instant messenger, change 15 lines and send it in here without any credits, you are a faker rather then a coder. But wasn't it called coding compo instead of faking compo? Well of course he didn't broke a rule. But he also didn't made the app. If you buy alcohol free beer there is still a bit alcohol left. Afaik you can call a beer alcohol free if it has less then 0.5% alcohol. (I am working on a shop which sells international beer...trust me ;P)
Same for this code if you ask me. If HtheB made less then 0.5% of the code, you can call it "HtheB-Free Code".
15 lines of 9200=~0.163%
And I do call it HtheB-free code. HtheB is not the author of this great application, he didn't coded it, that's why he shouldn't make 1th place on a coding compo. That's how I see that. And these are arguments.
That you need a step down converter and just can play Japanese games, and that the Wii might not be that much fun for Halit, is not an argument to let him win.

Earlier i said that i don't want to hurt him because he is a nice person. But he told me he made a completely new structure and fixed many bugs. He lied. He tried that i post here that he should win by telling me storeys of a hard work he made. So for now on i don't care how he fells about it, because he didn't cared how Tassu and all the others fell about it. He also didn't cared if he lies to his friends, and he didn't cared that he would take the Wii by faking to be the coder of Beup!
« Last Edit: April 16, 2007, 08:58:50 PM by Payk »

Offline Sektor

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Re: the final result of NEO Spring Compo 2007!
« Reply #53 on: April 16, 2007, 09:23:39 PM »
I understand how you feel, especially since you voted for Beup.  I voted for Pictoblog since I like 0xtob's other applications and it was an original app.  I knew HtheB didn't add much to Beup but I thought he had permission to enter from Kevinc or that he wouldn't mind.  I don't know what HtheB said to you, perhaps a misunderstanding, a slight exaggeration or maybe total lie.

I don't know why I am offering a defense, maybe because I ported and modified other peoples apps, so I know that even small changes can still take lots of my time, especially since I rarely know what i'm doing.  I would feel bad if I saw that I won a Wii and then it was taken away but it seems the judges and voters didn't have all the information and now that they do, it doesn't deserve first place.  I would feel even worse if I spent a lot of time and got 11th place because of Beup.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2007, 12:54:33 AM by Sektor »

Offline Payk

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Re: the final result of NEO Spring Compo 2007!
« Reply #54 on: April 16, 2007, 09:57:41 PM »
Of course it feels bad.
And yeah porting isn't easy. I for my self have heavy problems understanding sources from other ppl and i really think porting is a serious thing.
I really like what GPF does for example. His KOSFS port helped me much.
But its a totally different story how he does that. He always labels it as port. You can't oversee it. He writes it at his page, he writes it in his source, and he wrote it when entering this compo. And last but not least, if he picks up a opensource project, it stays opensource. I never saw a source of beup 0.3.
But there are licenses which everyone has to take care of. And even more he respects the origin of the source. He is a great sample how a porter should behave, and if such a person wins with such a port like duke3ds (which is  MUCH MORE effort  then picking up a source which already exist for this platform and "modify" it) wins i wouldn't be able to say anything against that.

And yeah, that i voted for him is what makes me mad. He didn't stated that ~0.163% of beup is his code and that he made a new skin. I would have preferred binary clock over his project(which is an funny app :D), if I would have knew that. But i guess i would have voted for Phidias.

A port is nothing bad. I really respect porters. Many games were written for a specific machine and its often hard to change settings in order to get it working fine. I wouldn't even know where to start when picking up such a huge code as duke3d. I really would feel lost in that code. Its nothing i could do in a prober way.

But HtheB didn't even ported something. He slighty moded a code (very slight..~0.163%) and changed skin. The funny thing is on his page you should take a look at the credits. He names his self first and Kevinc last.
That's really respectless. Well enough of throwing dirt at him. He maybe already feels embarrassed.

Offline Lynx

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Re: the final result of NEO Spring Compo 2007!
« Reply #55 on: May 19, 2007, 05:05:23 AM »
Quote
if something as important as fraud is discovered, changes can't be made

If by fraud, you mean using someone elses code with permission, then they are all fraud for using libNDS, which  is someone elses code.

If anyone is at fault, it's Neo, they accepted the entry, and that is final.

Do I agree it should have won, not really, it's getting tiring seeing the same old entries.. over.. and over.. and over..  but, if it's accepted, it's accepted.  If Hthe b is the active maintainer of the project, then it is his project.

Should everyone split their prizes with Joat and Dovoto for libNDS?  What about WinterMute for using his toolchain?

Offline mastertop101

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Re: the final result of NEO Spring Compo 2007!
« Reply #56 on: May 19, 2007, 05:41:08 AM »
Quote
If by fraud, you mean using someone elses code with permission, then they are all fraud for using libNDS, which  is someone elses code.

That must be among the stupidiest thing I've ever seen.

Offline Lynx

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Re: the final result of NEO Spring Compo 2007!
« Reply #57 on: May 19, 2007, 06:05:52 AM »
I agree.. this whole conversation is stupid..

Offline mastertop101

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Re: the final result of NEO Spring Compo 2007!
« Reply #58 on: May 19, 2007, 07:07:36 AM »
Maybe, but probably less than you :)

Offline Lick

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Re: the final result of NEO Spring Compo 2007!
« Reply #59 on: May 19, 2007, 02:07:29 PM »
Lynx, I don't think you're stupid but I think you are:

1) Confusing GPL licensed code with zlib licensed code. HthB still hasn't released his modifications which he must.

2) Confusing programming libraries with end-user software. If you think about it more deeply, you'll notice that those have very different purposes.