Author Topic: Need help running Neutopia I US version on PC-Engine LT [runs w/ glitches]  (Read 5827 times)

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Offline markwolfe

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I have verified that Neutopia US, when de-interleaved and region fixed with Ucon64, glitches when written with the Mac or PC software.

beta3 on OSX and writer v1.1 on PC, the game runs, the save file saves, but when you get killed or use the wings it glitches and either freezes or the buttons do not work. the Japanese version does not have this issue and works fine when you die or use the wings to return to the sanctuary for health restore and saving. I also tried every possible rom version with and without various fixes and stuff to no avail. if there is a way to do it, I'd really like some help.

when you use the wings, you get the scene change and lightning and then it switches the frame to the sanctuary building where the lady waits to save your file and restore your health and that is where it freezes. when you die, all the sprites still move and you can hear music but nothing works and the enemies do not react to you. if your sword was out it continues to swing if not, you're frozen.

this is using my PC-Engine LT only, I have not tried it with my US Turbo Duo with US roms not run through Ucon64... but I really want to play this on the LT


has anyone gotten the US version of Neutopia to run and save without glitches on a PC-Engine/non-us console?

Offline Conle

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Re: Need help running Neutopia I US version on PC-Engine LT [runs w/ glitches]
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2010, 11:48:25 AM »
"Region patches" will always cause issues.

Games back then didn't use frame independent synchronization , but hard coded sync methods to match up with the available cpu cycles ,
so when you "region patch" a game that is hard coded to run with the best possible performance for a target region just to be compatible with
yours , then..... expect issues.
 ::sm-03::

Offline electrochip

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Re: Need help running Neutopia I US version on PC-Engine LT [runs w/ glitches]
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2010, 12:59:48 PM »
You need to lift and ground pin 29 of the Hu6280 to ground inside your LT, US games have region protection, Ucon64 does not patch it correctly hence the glitches. I have a non modded original PC Engine and a region modded one. The non modded will not play Neutopia. Once I patch the roms with Ucon64 both systems will play it, but exhibit the glitches you mentioned. If I use the unpatched US version of Neotupia on my region modded PCE it works fine while the PCE is in PCE mode and I write to the card in PCE mode, as well as it being in TG16 mode and write to the card in TG16 mode.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2010, 10:22:12 AM by electrochip »

Offline markwolfe

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Re: Need help running Neutopia I US version on PC-Engine LT [runs w/ glitches]
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2010, 02:06:49 AM »
thanks for the head's up guys. is there a program that patches "correctly" ?

also, I have a US Turbo Duo and a PC-Engine LT. I am very hesitant to try anything to make the LT region free. is there a place that has documentation that can be trusted and uses the correct methods? I don't want to just google and pick anything willy nilly without verification it is a region free hardware hack that is trusted. I also worry that it may be beyond my meager abilities. I can certainly handle taking apart the thing and some light soldering on larger contacts.

@electrochip:  I did not understand that last part of your last sentence

If I use the unpatched US version of Neotupia on my region modded PCE it works fine while the PCE is in PCE mode and I write to the card in PCE mode, as well as it being in TG16 mode and write to the card in TG16 mode.

as for altering the hucard, I really don't want to do that, this is why I use the flash card so I am hoping there is a way, some other software or something.

« Last Edit: December 23, 2010, 02:21:02 AM by markwolfe »

Offline markwolfe

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Re: Need help running Neutopia I US version on PC-Engine LT [runs w/ glitches]
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2010, 02:28:43 AM »
my god, this is NOT easy:  http://www.multimods.com/SlotMod1.html  jeez.  didn't you say you just had to lift one pin?  I did not see a document for just the LT when I used google.

Offline markwolfe

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Re: Need help running Neutopia I US version on PC-Engine LT [runs w/ glitches]
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2010, 04:22:10 AM »
ok, I've been giving this some thought [be afraid]

since we have both the english and japanese versions of this game, is there some way to patch the japanese version to include the english text and maintain the integrity of the rom to playback on the LT using the flash card?

or will this just cause more unstable behavior?  I know translation patches typically work fine in flash cards. the game would still have the region and header info.

alternately, is there a way to swap out the region and header from the japanese rom and replace it in the english rom and maintain stability?

there's gotta be a way to make this work!  how can I do this using a hex editor?

Offline electrochip

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Re: Need help running Neutopia I US version on PC-Engine LT [runs w/ glitches]
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2010, 10:33:01 AM »
There is no translation patch, so no you can't take the JPN one and make it US like that. You could try PCE toy http://www.zophar.net/utilities/tg16aud/pcetoy32.html

As for what I meant in my previous statement is, when using the Neoflash program to write the neutopia rom to my flash cart it asks "PCE" or "TG16" for your corresponding system. So while the switch is up on my mod it is in PCE/JPN mode, when down it is in US/TG16 mode. Grounding solely pin 29 does not make your system region free, it will allow you to play US games via the PCE flashcart in PCE mode. You would have to open your system locate Hu6280, lift pin 29 and solder a wire from it to any ground point. Your system is still in PCE/JPN mode but it will by pass the US region protection on the rom that is on your flash cart. If you want to be able to play original PCE games and TG16 games, then you have to do the whole mod on your LT that you linked above.

If you have no previous experience doing mods, then I would not recommend you learn by trying this one, it is difficult one as the pins on the hu connector are small and lifting pin 29 is delicate work as well. I've done a few PCE's, Duo's/R/RX and TG16 but I haven't had an LT to work on. Some people don't want to modify or add a switch to something they paid so much for.

Offline markwolfe

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Re: Need help running Neutopia I US version on PC-Engine LT [runs w/ glitches]
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2010, 01:14:13 PM »
thanks for the info on the hardware mod. and yeah, I do get the idea of setting the software to write to the cart depending on what the target system is.

as for the translation patch idea, I do realize that currently there is no patch but what i was saying was, someone could easily make one since the translation is already done. the work would be targeting the text in the US English version and making an IPS patch out of it.

lastly, I can't get pce toy to run in windows. it is a dos program and there is no front end.

Offline Conle

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Re: Need help running Neutopia I US version on PC-Engine LT [runs w/ glitches]
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2010, 02:00:29 PM »
thanks for the head's up guys. is there a program that patches "correctly" ?

Unfortunately there is no such a thing.

The patching app simply looks into the code for opcode patterns that match with its database,
then patches everything that has been found.

For example if we had this simple check :

Code: [Select]
test_routine:
read region
compare region.this.build
move ret-reg,(cf)
test cf
not/equal idle-loop
rts

The program will most likely turn it into:
Code: [Select]
test_routine:
nop
set/cf 1
move ret-reg,(cf)
nop
nop
rts

Now imagine if the game does checks like this within its game loop and somewhere it tests
the result and if its negative it calls the main protection routine..... although the main
routine somehow got patched in a way that returns back back every time resulting in flickering/glitches.

Ofcourse the program most of the time will miss some checks and there are chances to break other things due to comparisons,
math instructions that rely on cpu flags..

That's why manual patching is the way to go.You could even "fix"  game that is supposed to run on different
region without glitches by (for example) writing to VSync video register a positive result or adding some delay on top of the game loop.